No-teleport rooms

There are a couple areas now that are not compatible with teleportation as stated in their rules. I’d think it be a nice feature if we could codify that in the room settings, too, somehow.

Not allowing summons

What I’m thinking a room setting that doesn’t allow to summon anyone into a room. Lore-wise it makes all the sense (e.g. you shouldn’t be able to skip the labyrinth if someone pulls you into the middle of it). It’d be nice to have an optional message for the explanation but otherwise it can just ooc into “check the area rules”.

This should be mutually exclusive with ‘register teleport’, I think, i.e. you cannot disable summons if the room is a public teleport location.

Not allowing teleporting out

Another (albeit a more disruptive option) is disallowing the teleports out. It’s of much more concern because it can be used for jailing characters and thus it can’t be a straightforward flip. Maybe this one could be a builder toggle? It would require a message for sure, and i can only think of a handful rooms (like OPRF) where it’d make a very useful lore reason to have it.

Given the sensitivity of such a feature, it must be paired with a short-timed autosweep.

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It could be interesting for the sake of immersion, but I do worry about how other users might use this and the problems it could for novice skill level users being confused at a largely unseen mechanism confounding them suddenly.

While blocking 'teleport and user to user summon/join usage (not to be confused with moderator version tools) could be neat to explore, we would still want to always make sure home is still available to users at all times. This in effect may defeat the point to the same extent that an auto-sweep message would.

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I think this is only an issue for teleporting out and I think that we should never stop the user from doing so if they really wish to – it’s just a gentle reminder to adhere to the area rules. When you’re in a room that doesn’t allow teleporting out the interaction can play like this:

Shinyuu: teleport sinder
Shinyuu tries to teleport outside of the cave but instead the walls glow red and the low voice says, “nope.”
((this room doesn’t allow teleporting out. Please cleck area rules for details. If you must leave the area, you can use home to go home, still))
Shinyuu: home

My thoughts: As long as users can ‘always’ use home then there really isn’t an issue in an area owner deciding to use available tools to block teleport, lead, follow, join or summon commands from being used/abused in an area.

Really just as simple as builders ask that public builds owners include a note about the restrictions in about area

This thread is actually based on the discussion around the Vaell Shrine where people repeatedly abuse the rule of no teleporting to the point where most of the rooms now have a bold header pleading people to read the rules.

I think there’s a perspective concern on the realm where ‘everywhere is IC all the time’ being a bit of an unhealthy default.

People definitely should be able to move around without having everything they do while existing as being IC action/presence. We need some stronger ways of allowing people to wander about while communicating clearly if they are or aren’t IC.

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I am not sure if this helps solve your problem at all, but it might be an idea to put forward that I have not the time to construct fully myself: what about Custom Teleport Messages? Just a message that gives context to how a character appears, instead of just “in a flash of light”.

“Chamomile swoops in from the nearest entrance, landing next to [user] and relaxing her wings.” (Entering from Summoned)

“Chamomile’s wings open up, and she shoots off into the air.” (Leaving via Tele/Summon)

“Chamomile wanders into view, following a hopping scalebug.” (Public Teleport Destination)

It may ease the OOC-IC breakage while still leaving people able to do what they need. Though, I feel it might be a lot of work, which is a programing factor I wish I knew more about.

Hope this helps?

(Might not respond quick to this, but I hope this idea mention helps.)

I think the use case for the summon restriction makes a lot of sense actually for some rooms!

Places like the maze, dungeons and others can be “cheesed” by people summoning others, and that breaks immersion a lot and its just not fun. On the other hand… is it really a problem? In the end the worst that happens is people spoiling the fun for themselves, but that’s their choice.

Its a different take on the Vaell Shrine though, summons are restricted because of lore reasons, isn’t it? I guess it would be okay to be like that; the whole issue about restricting summons in this case is that you make it harder for people to meet up?

I dunno really, I lean more towards an opinion that convenience shouldn’t be hindered unless absolutely necessary. I think there’s a good case for implementing restrictions but it also feels a bit unwelcoming…

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I’ve been reading through these discussions, as well as those regarding:

I think it sounds good, all of it. But they will touch each-other. How about this?

Custom teleportation messages

  1. Travel messages (go, teleport, summon) as well as wakeup/sleep messages shows type:

    Accipiterteleport confuses reality into believing he was there all the time.
    GR-33sleep shuts down.

  2. Travel messages using exits does not show type. It is consider default type of travel.
  3. Characters, rooms, and areas gets optional “teleport messages” configuration for arrive, leave, travel.
  4. When teleporting/summoning/sweeping, the priority of messages is: Room, Character, Area. If Room doesn’t have any custom teleport messages set, it falls back to Character. Then Area. Finally default (“flash of light”)
  5. The leave message is taken from the originating room.
  6. The arrive and travel messages are taken from the destination room.
  7. Area custom messages does NOT bubble up. A sub area will NOT use the parent areas’ custom message.
  8. Open sky rooms (Lighthouse (outside), Beach, Sinder Lane, etc.) should preferably have no custom room teleport message, allowing custom Character teleports.

No-teleport

  1. Rooms get a “no teleport” setting, preventing use of summon or teleport inside
  2. Using home and sweep is NOT prevented.
  3. Custom room teleport message can be used for home or sweep

Custom sweep destination

  1. Areas get a custom sweep room location. Room must directly belong to the area.
  2. Sweeping in an area teleports the character to the custom location, if available, otherwise to their home.
  3. Area’s custom sweep location DOES bubble up. A sub area without a custom sweep location will use the parent area’s location.
  4. Sweeping uses the same teleport messages as defined by Custom teleportation messages.

Now, I can already see how we would eventually want to have different messages for teleport, sweep, and summon teleportation. But for now, this is plenty.
Is this sort of what we want?

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I really like the type tagging of the messages! I wonder if icons would be nice to use instead or as an added flair though? Here’s what I imagine!

  • Right arrow: person came into the room
  • Left arrow: person left the room
  • Up arrow: person teleported away
  • Down arrow: person teleported into the room
  • Bed: person is now sleeping
  • Sun: person woke up
  • Home: person teleported home (though this can just be the same as the teleport!)
  • Broom: person used sweep

(I looked into the fontawesome free gallery, they have lots and lots of icons! - I think they add a little bit of glance value to messages and look very cute! Anyway I got distracted this is just a suggestion that occurred to me!)

But, back on topic, everything looks very well structured to me, however a single thing that is missing for me is a message very clearly indicating why the user can’t teleport in a no-teleport zone! It needs to be clear and friendly, for example:

  • Summon: This room has disabled teleportation, you can’t summon other characters to this room.
  • Join: You can’t join the target character currently, because they’re in a room that has disabled teleporting
  • Regular teleport: You can’t freely teleport away from this room. If you need to leave, use the command `home`
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1: I very much like the superscript message appended to the name- it clarifies what’s going on while letting the custom message continue.

9: As for No-teleport, my thoughts are that ideally rooms would block teleporting IN and not Teleporting OUT. I imagine it’s a lot easier to code to disable both, and that’s still fine.

All seems good by me.

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If you do this, it would need to be a client setting. I have a small screen on one of my devices and I can barely read the text. An icon would be very small and make it difficult for me to see just which icon it was.

I’m with Tasho on the caution, especially for people who aren’t used to such restrictions. I don’t consider myself remotely a noob, but there’s an area on Sociopolitical Ramifications (SPR) that prevents outbound teleports. It catches me off guard even now (partly because I’ve become rare in that area of SPR), and it always feels obnoxious.

And I partly agree with Chiaroscuro in that preventing inbound teleports is far better; I’m not at all sold on preventing outbound teleports. I’m also skeptical about how much it would add to immersion to be able to prevent it.

If this sort of thing is important to people, it should be decided at the character level: If their character has the ability, magically, technologically, or otherwise, great; if they decide that it doesn’t fit with their character concept, they’re free to eschew teleporting and move around conventionally, using exits.

Does anybody do this?

At most, instead of preventing teleports, I’d suggest using custom teleport messages creatively, as above, to make it look like someone else left conventionally somehow.

As far as trying to restrict people from teleporting using area rules goes, I don’t understand why people even are worried enough about this to prevent teleportation in the first place, any more than I understand why some people have problems with people pretending to smoke in the coffee shop. :stuck_out_tongue:

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This feels a lot more elegant in my opinion! I’m also concerned about a teleportation restriction when it comes to letting players leave a room, especially if navigation is difficult in the area they’re in!

But simply changing the default teleportation message for the affected rooms to something like “character has left the room” feels much nicer!

I am always for more descriptive superscript labels on response-types, it also prevents “spoofing” (the actual meaning, not the muck meaning) system-created messages, for whatever that’s worth.

Custom character teleports sound great, especially for open air rooms, being able to fly in would be a great thing for character with wings to have instant access to.

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After reading these posts, I tend to agree that custom messages for travel would be a nice addition.

Wow, there’s a lot to unpack in this. Most of this is my opinion, but the gist is, I like options. But I’d prefer it to happen a little different.

I don’t think a room/area needs these messages. Everywhere I’ve seen has let the user decide how they want to leave and enter, giving them their own power over locomotion methods. I’m not going to say ‘no’ to a room/area defining one if it should want, I just don’t think it’ll be able to do as good a job as the actual character doing it. If it’s deemed desirable, I’d change the order to be Character > Room > Area (chained). That way the character gets preference.

I’d also make each of these messages different things the user provides. I wouldn’t try to put in one message that covers all possible modes of transport. It seems a bit limiting. I’m not likely to teleport the same way I get summoned. So, they’d almost have to be different things if we’re adding this for the creative part. And if we’re not being creative, why bother?

Given the above, I don’t think the ‘type’ specifier on the exit is at all needed. In fact, if anything, I’d argue that how I decided to leave is no one else’s business. I may have teleported off to another place to see what’s up, or been summoned to meet a friend. I’d rather not expose that information to anyone that I don’t have to. I can see the page follow-ups of “Oh, so who are you meeting? Mind if I join?”. If the character wishes to expose that information, that should be their choice by setting different messages that make it obvious what they’re doing.

As for no teleport, the way I’ve heard it termed is ‘haven’. Basically, no summons into the area. Being summoned out should be always allowed. This keeps the area private, or makes everyone use the front door. Teleport should likely not be affected. I could see an argument to limit teleport in to a room, but if you have a registered destination, isn’t that what you wanted? Maybe if you ‘closed’ the shop and don’t want people inside? The other way may be by room ID. In which case, okay, maybe? So, if you wanted to stop teleport IN to a room, I can see some uses cases, but out should be allowed. Any other mode of transit isn’t affected at all (sweep, go, and such). Don’t forget to include a condition for the room owner. They totally should be able to get in regardless of the haven flag, or summon people in as well. I expect the whole use here would be to build a room, invite someone over, and then keep it locked up so no one wanders in without having been invited.

I’m wishy washy on the sweep destinations. I dislike the idea of ending up in a place different than where I went to sleep or my own home. If I was to be nefarious, I’d make a room, sweep to a cell of some kind, and set the cell up with no exits and “haven” it (if teleport out is disabled as per the original – or if perhaps the user isn’t magical and doesn’t teleport). Home still allows one to escape, but if you’re trying to role play, you’re not really getting a lot of options here. I do see the appeal, but some part of my brain is yelling at me that it’s wrong. But, that said, if it is a desirable feature, it should probably follow the same rules I suggested above (character, room, area). Again, the character knowing best.

If you’re looking to simplify, you could try to make it all one leave, arrive, travel on the user. And then the path becomes exit > character for the use of ‘go’. But, I totally think it’d make the customization difficult to attribute (sleep walking out versus teleporting are certainly different).

Anyway, that’s my two cents. Not saying it’s right. But it’s how I think it should work.

Custom teleport message

I am not entirely sure what you mean we usually let them decide. Like with exits, the travel messages are determined by the room owner so that the messages matches the context of the departure/arrival rooms:

Accipiter arrives from the train station.

By prioritizing character’s custom teleport messages, those messages can easily mismatch their surrounding. Eg. a winged creature with flies off into the sky. as custom teleport message leaving the sewers, will feel off for the people in the departure room. Did they actually fly off? Do we pretend they took the ladder up to the manhole and then flew off? I think it will cause a disruption.

That is why I prefer to have the room owner make the decision how people “teleport” away/into, or to allow character custom messages. I think it will make it less disruptive.

Prevent teleport

I agree. I think at most, we can have a room setting:

☐ Prevent summoning

All outgoing teleportation should be allowed. And since the only incoming teleportation left is either through teleport nodes or through owner/admin teleportation, summoning is all we will need to block.

Sweep destinations

It is a totally separate features. I will return to this one later on. But I think it is pretty harmless as we will continue to allow all outgoing teleportation.

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And this is where I prefer the opposite. For a room description, the exit and mode of travel is generally determined by the room author. When taking an exit, the character may not know all the details of what the traversal would be. So, this makes sense for those kinds of exits. It’s already a struggle when writing a room exit to not “so and so opens the door and walks inside.” – Wait, how do you even know I walked? Maybe I hover? Maybe I slither like a snake. But the room author has made a call for the character. I know when I was writing some, it started to get very repetitive to always use the most generic transit verbs. In the case of a room transit though, I think it takes precedence because the point of exploring and wandering around with exits is the experience and world building. It’d be up to the author to avoid using specific forms of travel that may be unlikely to work for their participants.

However, for teleport and summon, I don’t think the room author has enough information to do that for them. And we’re also getting out of the realm of immersion into a room and exploration. We’re talking about a character making an exit to another part of the world. No longer is it just being careful about word choice to basic movement, but also about how a character chooses to use a teleport or summon. What if the character is immune to magic, but we’re in a room that chooses to dissolve them with a spell? Or what if they don’t have wings and the author assumes everyone up here flies in the sky, so decides to use something with that? I think the mode of transit here is a lot more personal than room based. And this is where I’d err on the side of the character taking into consideration the rest of the world. I don’t go about describing skies and giant swooping rooms in other worlds. I know that I may be in a place that doesn’t have what I need. So I try to keep it personal. A small spell, a device pulled out of a pocket. Something I can do that will fit. I want to try and fit in. Obviously, not everyone will, but it’s a social game. That’s life.

At the end of the day, you’re having to choose between who knows best. There is always going to be a conflict there. The room author knows the environment better, but the character knows themselves better. And that’s why I think room exits (go) are given to the room author to handle, but the character should get the choice when they are crossing the world (teleport, summon). This gives people equal parts of the social contract instead of saying a builder always knows best.

And, as a side effect to my suggestion, you may end up with a lot more varied messages for people to see. If every room author starts to use this (maybe they feel obligated to?) then it’s always going to be the same boring sets of messages. I’d personally like the flair of seeing people’s creative messages (hopefully!) and not just the same boring ones as people all teleport from node to node.

Just my $2.50. (Am I better at finance now? :))

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After reading (and discussing), I think I come to the conclusion that both views are valid. Ungh!

SO! To allow both styles of priority, I will also add an option to both areas and rooms:

☐ Override custom character teleport messages

The room/area owner will then choose priority. If left unchecked, any custom character message will have priority, or else the room.

In the case where both the area and room has custom messages, but the area is set to “Override character message”, but the room is not, I will let the room’s setting have priority and use any existing character message.

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