Wolfery has a problem - what you can do about it

Today I would like to share a selection of constructive criticism. This constructive criticism comes with not a small amount of deliberation on my part. Over the past several weeks, I have been writing down observations and ideas. I have collected a shoebox of notes which I have herein coalesced into a formative and specific analysis based on the observations of myself and others.

Wolfery has problems that are characteristic of fandom chat platforms, and they are blossoming in a similar fashion. A number of people, including several former staff, have been very vocal about these problems wherever possible. Much of what I have to say here is redundant to their voices; I’m concatenating and amplifying.

After I joined the platform I invited twelve people, six of whom joined, and of those people five invited between one and five other people. Subsequently, five of the total new referrals actively departed and stated such to me while several others left and did not return, without comment. From those who left I conducted exit interviews to learn about their experiences. These interviews were conducted on a volunteer basis.

I was also engaged without solicitation by at least two former staff members who wanted to complain about specific issues that they had voiced concerns about. They indicated that a primary motivator in their decision to leave staff was that they observed significant corruption, nepotism, abuse of power and inappropriate handling of complaints. They stated that they felt their concerns were not being heard, or that they were being heard but dismissed without adequate consideration.

These are the most frequently mentioned problems:

  1. Silencing of dissenters

There have been incidents where people who complained either on the forums or on the platform itself have had their complaints silenced. Posts were locked, deleted or selectively edited and then administrators or moderators made comments to which the original complainant and the community were not able to respond, thereby taking away the voice of the userbase and replacing it with a single voice whose opinion was fashioned into the defining position on the matter. In several cases, these were not forum moderator actions, but actions taken by individuals who are also administrators or other senior staff on the platform itself.

Silencing of the public voice is a sign of weak leadership. When the staff are more concerned with saving face than in hearing the voice of their userbase, it does not mean that people are no longer complaining. It means that their complaints are heard by other users who are hearing them and then quietly choosing to leave. For every person who complains, there are five people who are leaving without complaint.

  1. Nepotism

Another complaint I listened to was personal selectivism of staff and preferential treatment based on personal relationships. Things like “I chose this person for this role because I know them as an administrator/moderator on another platform” or “I chose this person because they are a long time friend and I trust them based on my personal experiences with them.”

People also mentioned that they noticed a specific senior staff member from a popular MU* who has raised a large number of ethical complaints had been signing onto Wolfery with a note in their profile stating that they were there expressly for the purpose of advising, in a senior capacity, from the perspective of a “more experienced” administrator. One person stated they left the platform after seeing this profile online and two others expressed that they had significant concerns about this person influencing the staff on Wolfery, and stated their intent to leave if the person continued to show up with that profile.

The problem of nepotism reaches far and wide. In a system where there is no transparency to users about when and how leadership is chosen, ranked and given the powers of moderation and administration, corruption happens. You can choose to fix this by giving transparency to every staffing decision. Each time a person is selected, promoted, demoted or removed where there is any effect on their power to control or influence users, there should be a notice that is visible to all with information about why the action was taken, when it took effect and with specifics about all of the organizational changes that resulted. Users should be consulted when there are major changes to staffing or leadership and their input taken, acknowledged and acted upon.

A not significant number of former staff members have, on multiple occasions, loudly expressed that they chose to resign from staff because of disagreements with superior staff with regard to selection, implementation and retention of staff based on inadequate premises. And where certain staff’s decisions carried more weight because of their relationships with senior staff; or because these staff members carried roles that were deemed essential to the platform’s success, such as builders, coders and those with ownership interest.

  1. Victim blaming

Several people complained that when they brought complaints to staff, their complaint was turned around on them and used against them. I’ve seen this happen on other fandom chat platforms, and specifically it is endemic on furry chat platforms. Often this problem occurs when a junior member of staff receives a complaint and either is not sure how to handle it, or they do not wish to raise a complaint with more senior staff for various reasons. One of the big reasons is when a complaint is brought against a superior. With a tendency among fandom platform admins to kill the messenger when a junior staff member raises a complaint on behalf of a user about a senior staff member, it is easier for the junior staff member receiving the complaint to turn the complaint around and make it seem as though the victim brought the abuse on themselves than to prod the sleeping dragon.

Another cause is when a junior staff member brings the complaint to their superiors, but their superiors are hiding behind the front line staff and do not want to address the problem. So as to not deal with the problem, they will instruct the junior staff member to simply tell the victim that they are needlessly complaining, or that the person who attacked them was “just kidding” or “they did it in character” or “if you don’t want to hear them you should mute them,” and etc. On a platform where anyone can create many characters and muting one of them does not mute all of that person’s characters, this is not an acceptable or substantive solution.

A third cause of victim blaming is when a user is frequently the target of harassment due to attracting negative attention. Whether the user has a controversial fursona, they have kinks that are unpopular or they simply differ from the popular consensus of what is considered normal, some users get harassed more than the average user does. In these cases, staff will sometimes choose to begin blaming the user for their being harassed in an effort to make the problem go away as a strategy to reduce work. By collecting enough incidents where the victim is blamed for the actions of others, the staff can amass sufficient cause to take administrative action against that user, thus “fixing the problem” and eliminating the work of protecting their user from abuse.

  1. Abuse of power

I heard complaints about problems where owners of popular areas made bad use of their power to control the space when players:

  • Refused to RP with them
  • Muted or otherwise ignored them after being harassed or verbally abused by them
  • Declined to take an action on their own character that the player deemed out of cannon or not in keeping with their character’s lore

The specific uses of power included asking players to leave, sweeping or banning players without consulting a staff member and verbally abusing the players in front of other players in ways that affected their personal relationships with other players, or caused other players to leave the area. Three users who appealed to staff after these incidents were informed that the owners of the area have absolute power in the rooms that they own and do not require any staff oversight to speak to other players in any way they wish or to sweep, ban or otherwise exclude those players from what are considered to be public areas by the general population.

In another case, a player complained that they had read on the forums that staff do not generally have access to a list of characters that belong to a player. When they raised a complaint about behavior from another player, the staff member they spoke to refused to take action even though logs demonstrating the problem behavior had been provided upon request and the staff member had confirmed they had reviewed the logs. In an attempt to resolve the problem themselves, the player decided to delete the character that had been the target of the problem behavior, so they signed the character off and went ahead with deleting it. The player then logged on another character to find that the staff member they had interacted with had sent them a follow-up mail message with regard to their previous interaction. Upon engaging the staff member about their concern that their character information had been accessed, the staff member first claimed that they had pulled the information about the player’s list of characters from the game themselves, and that they had direct access to that information. When the player mentioned to the staff member that they were under the impression that only administrators had access to a list of a player’s characters, the staff member then changed their story and said that they had consulted with an administrator who had provided the information about their other characters. This constitutes a violation of implied privacy, since it establishes that at least some non-administrative staff do, in fact, have access to not only a list of characters belonging to each player, but also sufficient information to know when they have woken and used those characters, as would be required to target a message to that character prior to that character signing on that day.

  1. Selective enforcement

People complained that they had been contacted by staff when another player complained about their behavior where the staff required them to stop the behavior. They claimed that later, when they complained to staff about having the same behavior targeted at them, and they complained, that no action was taken against the offending player and they were given the standard answer of “mute them or leave the area.” Again, muting a character who has offensive behavior toward another is not effective because it does not stop the behavior, it only stops the victim from seeing the behavior, while others in the room still see it. And muting one character only mutes one of that player’s characters, leaving them free to pursue the undesired behavior through other characters. If a behavior is not right from one player, it’s also not right from other players, and the problem should be equally dealt with for all complainants.

There have also been incidents where certain rules were enforced tightly in earlier days, but later when the problems became more frequent, staff instead turned a blind eye. The enforcement, for example, of disallowing multiple “clone” profiles which are essentially the same character, but with a slightly different name, so that a player can be in several areas with the same character at once. Players complained that they had been required to delete or significantly alter their characters in prior years or months, but that recently, there had been an influx of clone characters, some of whom had been there for weeks or months with no action taken against their players. Players who complained about this felt that the rule had been unfairly enforced on them, and that now they are seeing all these clone characters around, it feels like two-faced policy enforcement.

  1. Urban sprawl

This is a topic that comes up frequently on the platform. People complain that there is just too much stuff. There are too many rooms. The ways and means of moving from one place to another are complicated and confusing. People complain that it’s hard to find other like-minded people because the areas created for people with specific interests are too far apart, take too long to move between or are difficult to locate. There has been a lot of discussion about this problem both on the platform and on the forums. Additionally, people want to create new areas to add to the already overwhelming choice: People join, they create new areas to explore, then they’re disappointed because no one visits them.

Staff has made it clear that there is a vision for what Wolfery should be in terms of geography, and that there is no room for suggestions that the size and complexity of the environment might be causing issues with population retention due to inability to form cohesive bonds with other players.

New areas should be added based on population demand. Adding more areas just for the sake of “immersion” or “realism” or “to create a story” does not build on or retain population. While it is important for the platform to have an established theme, the theme should take a backseat to the primary objective, which is to bring people together in a shared story world. Instead, the existing sprawl lends a sensation of existential woe, as the player moves from room to room to dozens of rooms trying to find like-minded people.

None of the areas should take more than three commands to access from the central population space and users should be allowed to teleport directly to the foyer of any of the distinct RP aras. The distinct RP areas should each have a default entry in the player’s list of teleport destinations with clear descriptions of what each area is for.

This is the starting formula for a successful map for furry chat/RP platform. It has been tested over decades and proven to work. I would strongly suggest that Wolfery staff take into consideration the layout of a once very large and populous MUCK that many people consider to be the founding furry MUCK.

In conclusion:

It is unlikely that any significant portion of the population would be offended if a majority of the unused, remote areas of the Wolfery map simply vanished one day following a statement by the administration that there had been a renewed interest in focusing on the interest of their player base in terms of creating a cohesive, easy to navigate, functional roleplay environment.

I also strongly encourage the administrators with the greatest interest in the success of the platform to assess their reasoning for choosing and retaining each member of their staff and to reconsider some of their roles. It is clear from many voices that the time for a reorganization is now.

Finally, I understand that administering a staff on a volunteer basis can be very taxing. I realize that nobody is being paid or getting any compensation for doing so. However, I invite Wolfery’s admins to deliberate on the variety and reach of the power in their hands. There are people who depend on Wolfery as a significant portion of their social lives. For some of them, it’s a haven from other platforms they have left where they had significant relationships, but left because they were mistreated. These people want to do the significant work of migrating others to Wolfery as an alternative to the platforms they left for many of the same reasons they have now begun to leave Wolfery.

The actions you choose have a far reaching impact on the social lives of others.

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I can’t comment on most of your points, because I don’t fall under the definition of “staff” the way you seem to imply it, but I want to add feedback on two things.

I didn’t. The abuse of public areas is taken seriously and, in my experience, it always involved someone from the mod team, too. I’m saying this as someone who had declared two characters personae non gratae in a specific area, so I’m talking from prior experience.

I can even say more, because I totally have an experience of kicking someone out of my area for ignoring me (which is similar to the point you raised). No one is forced to interact with me, but if you come to my area, roleplay stealing stuffs, and then absolutely and utterly ignore all in-character communication you are forcefully pointed at the door. Obviously, it can and should be resolved by OOC means, but if I don’t actually that the other party ignores me I just stay in character (i.e. I expect that ignoring me is also done in-character).

If you don’t follow the area rules, you are pointed at the door. If you keep ignoring the area rules, you get a sweep. The staff isn’t generally involved in policing the individual rooms and their rules.

You know, it’s those people’s problem, honestly. It’s like coming to a book store and complaining that there are too many culinary books and they steal the space from manga.

I do agree with that and I am always curious about suggestions about improving that, both in-character (better maps, autonomous riding trixens), and out of character. There were indeed plenty of good opinions on the forum. If anyone has something else to say on this, I would love to hear it.

Some people aren’t bothered with “retaining population” and I think it’s fair. There are hubs with more population and there are storytelling corners like Nox Aeterna and Weird Sinder.

I did some research on MUCKs and MUDs and this doesn’t historically hold true. Maybe

but Wolfery isn’t a “furry chat platform”, is it?

We could also wipe everything but Sinder, make room 1, room 2, and room 3, and become a glorified f-list. Because who cares about solving puzzles and traversing labyrinths on a platform where furries fuck, innit?

While your examples have merit in them, you also need to consider the other point. Speaking of the personal experience, when I planned to rewrite the Sacred Valley to have less rooms and simpler navigation, I was convinced by the inhabitants of the valley to not do that. Even though about a third of the rooms in there are cosmetic and aren’t useful for roleplay, they add to the total lore of the place, and removing them makes the place feel less inhabited.

There is absolutely no limit on who can create areas in Wolfery, and I think its one of its strengths as a platform. People come from all kinds of backgrounds and they have all kinds of experiences. I’ve been to many private spots in the Rift written with love and attention. It’s great to see others’ work. I’ve been to almost every corner of the public map and it’s rare to see places that are themed in a similar way. I would honestly prefer if people wrote more, not less, and that’s why I suggested the teleport nexus, an unofficial reach-everything-in-three-gos place where there are less restrictions on creativity and people can experiment in a way they see fit.

Is the navigation convoluted? Yes. Can we make it better? Yes. Should we force people to write less for the sake of others? I don’t see why.

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Sounds like you like Mucklet, you just don’t like Wolfery – which was specifically created as a place for roleplay where anyone can build, not “furry chat” – or how it’s run.

Perhaps you’d be interested in running your own realm , once the option to do so becomes available? (The proposal there likely won’t meet your needs, but I think it’s for testing purposes.)

I’ve spent a long time exploring the far-flung areas of the world – most have relatively low traffic, but that’s part of their charm. They’re not “hubs”; they’re places you go to explore and optionally bring others, where you can play with few distractions. Few are as simple as “this is the area for X”; that may have been part of the motivation, but every builder has their own vision. And if you don’t like what they did, you can build your own, rather than one person having authority over “X”.

I’ve also built and linked a public area – a refreshingly quick and simple affair compared to some. One could argue it has “too many rooms”, but each has a purpose. And personal builds tucked into nooks and crannies are just that – for the enjoyment of individuals. They’re not hurting anything by existing, even if only a few ever visit.

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At the very least, you are going to offend those who put hours, if not days, of hard work into writing up, designing, working to get approval for, and then promoting those remote areas. I do not feel we have the right to decide who to offend in this manner just so some folks feel they have a ‘cohesive, easy to navigate, roleplay environment’. (Yes, I omitted functional because it IS currently functioning, even if not functioning how you would like.)

I think Green is correct, that you are looking to create a social platform that Wolfery was not designed to be and you would greatly benefit from running a realm of your own that you can fine-tune and make a haven for those who want it.

However, I do caution against relying on a single platform for the majority of your social lives, as if it goes down for technical or financial reasons, you will be left without the social and emotional support network that is critical to maintaining a healthy mental state. This was demonstrated very clearly during the pandemic when there was a marked increase in mental health crises as physical gathering spaces were closed and people lost the ability to connect with others that they relied upon previously. Having a few different places where you can get support from friends will help mitigate this risk.

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I find myself generally agreeing with staff issues. It’s not a secret that I was a mod for a time and I might even not have been great at it, but several of the things raised here are things I observed. I was told I was invited to the staff because a member of staff at the time knew me from another MU* and thought I’d be a good fit. Though in a point against nepotism, I also had to have a chat with Accipiter after several interactions, so make of that what you will. At the time, I was the only staff member who was picked this way, though since then it’s my understanding there have been other staff members who were not buddies of staff from other realms. EDIT: Accipiter claims to not have known much of the staff before bringing them on. I have no reason to dispute or deny his statement. Most of the early staff all knew each other from one place but that doesn’t necessarily mean that Accipiter knew them also, but it DOES explain how they all knew each other.

I remember firmly telling someone who happened to be a member of staff not to engage with me in a certain way in RP and then they mocked me for it. When I asked why they were mocking me they doubled down. When I said I was setting boundaries they said ‘You’re not setting boundaries, you’re laying a minefield.’ I told them not to talk to me then (except for staff reasons obviously), and they continued to message me on that character and on my alts or peanut gallery my roleplay scenes in public. I brought this up to another mod but it still kept happening. This person also has admin privileges, wow! Thankfully, this issue has been resolved by speaking with another staff member who was brought to light on what happened.

These general agreements aside, I have to strongly disagree about your opinions on building. This isn’t an IRC chatroom or F-List. There are a lot of empty and abandoned areas. I would even agree that some of them are low quality. Do I think there should be stricter standards on public builds? Yes. But also I don’t think that these builds exist just to be populated at all times. I built a zone for fantasy rp that is rarely used, and that’s fine. When people do use it, they enjoy it. It’s a place people can wander around and make their own stories. Not every room needs to be a hub. Exploring the world, inviting people to rooms there that fit the scene – it’s a good time. And, frankly, I don’t want all of Wolfery’s population to be compacted into three rooms anyway. Then I can’t get away from the people I don’t want to talk to without going to one of my own private rooms. :stuck_out_tongue:

I DO find myself agreeing that navigation is often unclear, but this also frequently comes back to build quality. Some builds are much more clear about how to navigate and others aren’t.

While we’re talking about staff issues: A former moderator suggested an idea very very similar to the Nexus and a stink was raised about it. Now the Nexus is implemented by Shinyuu. This isn’t a criticism of Shinyuu, it just makes me raise my brows that it wasn’t okay with one person but was okay with another. Maybe it’s simply the passage of time, attitudes changing, and not a conscious thing.

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As far as I know (the initial decision was before my time), there was some contention to that idea. After I raised the subject, the team agreed to allow me to run a trial (especially given that it wasn’t the first time it was raised) and then we concluded that this concept can stay.

Again, not blaming you at all, I find this so strange because the original staff member who proposed this idea also had an area built for a trial.

I guess this isn’t the first time something that was firmly shot down the first time it was suggested ended up coming back in the future when suggested again.

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Not to enter the discussion much (currently focusing more on improving room scripting), but I can just mention as a reply to this peculiar claim of “nepotism”.

I didn’t know any of the staff initially. Most of them are people who helped out a lot when Wolfery was newly started. I asked those that I felt was both engaged in the game and had a good temper, often helping out resolving stuff in the park, if they wanted to help me with the burden of moderation.

Some of the staff know eachother since before. Most does not. And I didn’t know any of them. (But strangely enough, some knew who I was! . That was weird :slight_smile: )

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FWIW, I found someone had a go at building a school halfway into my own build. It happens. Could have been any number of factors in the case you mentioned. (Last time I checked the Nexus only had one location in it, so doesn’t seem like a big deal, but perhaps others were placed over time.)

BrEaKiNg NeWs!!1!: SMALL STAFF TEAM CONSULTS ONE ANOTHER AND MAKES UNIANIMOUS DECISIONS ABOUT POLICY AND TROUBLE TICKET HANDLING AFTER LENGTHY DISCUSSION AND PRIORITIZATION OF THE SITE’S COMMUNITY GUIDELINES OVER THE PREFERENCES OF THE STAFF! (oh no!)

If you want to make your own realm on the Mucklet platform - as I understood it when I was still on staff, it’ll be available down the road. Until then, conform to the rules of Wolfery or take a break until you’re able to run the show the way you want under the broader and more permissive rules of the overall platform? :slight_smile: If you need a lack of rules, there are plenty of self-hosting services out there happy to let you run a private community/group and then you can privately (and safe from Wolfery’s rules) complain about Wolfery’s rules as much as you’d like in the meantime.

If anyone was to have an issue with Accipiter, it should be that he tolerates too much bad faith from the users sometimes, typically hoping that he can find a diplomatic route through the crap presenting itself - even at the cost of the patience of his volunteers who have often already been excessively patient and collected sufficient evidence which would have users banned fully on most sites and services. (and often had caused them to be banned from other sites and services prior to their arrival to Wolfery.)

That said, the site owner is no fool and has (what I feel is) an uncompromising vision for what he believes his site should be. Push comes to shove, he’ll put someone out the airlock too if it comes down to it, but he’ll be bummed out that it came to that because there’s really no reason for people to conduct things that way - something we both agree on even if we have different processes for arriving at it.

–

I was brought on super early because I was willing to uphold the site by its stated rules and policies - same with the others. It was a tiny team and a tiny userbase.

We handled things by council (because duh - team unity) and hammered out anything that there was disagreement on in order to find better ways of presenting information or handling users who knowingly and intentionally violated the rules repeatedly. We had systems in place to make sure nobody was getting chopped first time unless everyone agreed that the situation was severe enough to warrant it - plainly obvious bad faith. The initial staff team even decided to forego additional administrative powers because everyone was communicating well enough that we didn’t need isolated power anywhere and we’d simply collectively speak with the site owner/admin when it was important enough to do so.

As users showed themselves to be heavily involved and actually upholding the site’s rules and showed understanding of what the site owner intended the site to be, staff members would nominate them for moderator and builder roles according to what was appropriate - something which (again) was agreed upon by the staff on hand with rare exception of a ‘helper’ now and again against the advice of the moderation team at the time.

After a long while on staff, I voluntarily left in order to promote the moderation teams energy being more in line with the vision the site owner had for moderation in the community, since my level of focus on preparing for bad actors wasn’t really in line with what Accipiter had in mind and I was bringing a lot of frustration to him semi-regularly and that made it clear to me that I was an ill-fitting cog in the machine compared to what he wanted. I had previously offered to resign months earlier when I’d identified that perhaps my proactive intentions weren’t in alignment, but was asked to remain in place for the time being - and did so. Anyways, its been a while since all that - maybe there’s something ‘new’ which has happened since all that. :^) (Though it seems I still have an honorary team member tag? meh. Disclaimer: I’m not staff - come at me! :yellow_heart:)

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+1
This was my experience as staff and why I left.
Every time someone has complained in the forums about Accipiter acting too hastily I’ve laughed and laughed to myself because that’s just not how it is.
No hate on you Acci, we have a difference of opinion on moderation and that’s why I left. I’m never going to deny that you stick to your ideals.

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Wolfery gets an unsurprising number of people who opted to choose violence on other services and lost… for reasons obvious to anybody who looks at the rules and why they seem to be put together the way they are. The older generations that often make up the staff of these sites will certainly speak with one another when ‘the same people as usual’ are making trouble and then trying to talk their way out of it by pretending they were justified in breaking the rules to attack somebody on the site and then they have a bird (maybe the majestic turkey :turkey:) when the staff punishes them right along with everybody else who broke the rules. Sometimes nothing more than a warning and they lose their mind.

It’s the same game over and over again and a lack of introspection will just keep the game being played at nauseum - unpaid volunteers just aren’t going to put up with it any longer than the rules and guidelines dictate.!
241112-BouncyCrow

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I generally don’t agree with what you post, @moz386, but you’ve hit the nail on the head on several of those points, for many interactions I’ve seen in the last year, and they feel that they’re growing more frequent, rather than less.

Many forums fail in this regard, and many succeed. I believe post locking is an acceptable method to end an argumentative streak, or to take a firm stance. But, unless a post is specifically hateful and targeting of a single user (not a staff member, *1), calling for violence against a specific class, or doxxing an individual that uses Wolfery or Mucklet, the post should not be deleted, forcibly edited, or otherwise hidden from the public eye. We all should be given a chance to understand the hatred as best is visible, rather than allowing rumours and gossip to stir the embers of communal dissent.

A final post by a member of staff, clarifying staff’s thought on the topic before it’s locked? Fair and reasonable. This is the platform you lot run, after all. But leaving posts up as they fit your view, or are acceptable by your standards? It’s blatantly obvious in the end, and more often than not, leaves folks to wonder just what you’ve pushed under the rug.

I’ve seen this. I’ve also seen retribution against the victim for a forum post. I won’t drag others’ name into my post, although I freely welcome them to reply to this.

When a user posts on the forum about a negative experience in Wolfery, or asks for/suggests a solution in the same post, there’s no world in which they should be banned from posting to the forum. If someone is willing to go public with a negative experience they’ve had without being a negative influence against others (*2), the staff have a responsibility to dig into it no matter who is implicated.

There should not be a divide between junior staff and senior staff, nor should there be a chain of command that reads like the gods sending orders to their demigods to grab us all by the balls and steer us in their intended direction, dissenters be damned.

Anyone in any way more powerful than the average user should never be afraid to speak out against the acts of a staff member more senior than them. I don’t know if this means a private hotline to Accipeter’s inbox, or an internal affair team, or what else (nor would I attempt to tell y’all how to run the backend of moderation without getting into the weeds myself, and frankly, I don’t want to do that). Covering for one another in any manner is disturbing, and there’s enough eyes watching y’all’s acts that we have seen it happen.

Moz is also bang on the money that many users are targeted for having a character who’s negative, rather than being a negative individual. I’ve seen it myself, hell, one of my characters is routinely disregarded even in relatively OOC areas like the Rep or Station Park. Thankfully, staff haven’t been on that character’s case for any reason, yet. But I know several others who have.

The same also happens with drama between characters. One person will use their plethora of characters to drown and degrade another character’s standing, through the massive network of friends, only for admins to then bow their head to the ‘general discontent’ that comes from a targeted attack by one person running ten characters in a short span of time. Twice now, I’ve had friends who’ve raised complaints about being on the receiving end of that treatment end up banned from the forum for a time, because, “If everyone hates them then it must be their fault.”

I’ve seen this before. It never ends up well, and although it might be the unconscious reaction of two different staff members, there’s still the fact that, as admins or moderators, all y’all should be on the same or similar page for how to treat transgressions (and what defines a transgression, and how members have acted/been punished in the past.) (3*)

I firmly believe that clone characters are a two-faced policy enforcement failure. Where once it was seen as wrong, there’s really no reason I couldn’t have three or four clones of the same character online right now, eh? Why not, since (according to multiple popular figures’ statements here on the forums), I could let my character continue chatting in Station Park, while also having a shag in the Foxhole, while also continuing a couple of long term canons I have going. Think of the possibilities…

Aaaaaaand, back to disagreeing with you, moz386. Urban sprawl, and canonical growth of Sinder and surrounding lands, is why I love Wolfery so much as a platform. Most-everything is linked and laid out to suit the story. For long term character canons, it helps even more. Why not have a date at the Rep for a drink, and then walk hand in hand back to the forest for a nice bottle of wine at the Lake? Why turn it into a teleportation path, and cut off that travel?

Interesting that you deleted your posts here… ‘Furry Chat Platform’, huh?

There are areas that do need to be improved. All outlying areas past Sinder should have some manner of direction to get there. And I do, frankly, love the option of something like @Shinyuu’s Trixens having an automated taxi feature. ((And honestly… yeah, I do want to be able to scream ‘WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE’ with a character while they ride a trixen through something like station park. Call me immature, but that sounds like more fun than putting nipple clamps on a mime. (*4)))

*1 Staff members always should be held to a higher standard than us peasants. If any community is to succeed, it should be able to trust those in power, whether democratically elected or authoritatively instated. (Note: I’m not calling for Wolfery elections here. That sounds like far more drama and hell than we need. Only for any and ALL posts on moderation/staff, or a specific member within, to remain visible for all.)

*2 ‘A negative experience against others’ is a vague term, yes. In this context, I’m stating towards other users. Negativity on the forums is definitely not the most welcoming for new users, but it’s a sign of a healthy community. Out here, we can talk like adults without scrolling, easy to forget text logs disappearing into the night, we can sort out issues before they turn into something that splits the community asunder.

*3 My honest recommendation, from my own time spent moderating a few communities across different generations (Kik, Telegram, now Discord)? A shared Google Sheets document or similar, consistently updated spreadsheet. The names of troublemakers, victims, (and, backend account names for both of them, despite privacy concerns), situation, time, date, and location, are enough for a quick search to turn up any evidence of group-based harassment and/or retribution, both of which need to be snuffed out in a hurry. Obviously, there are privacy concerns about the date being managed like that, but at the same time, it’s the best, simple tool for moderation of more than a hundred individuals.

*4 No, your honour, I have never, and do not intend, to put nipple clamps on a mime.

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The only posts we really delete are spam posts, made by bots. Nor do we go into user’s posts to edit them unless there are specific words we find too objectionable to let stand.

What we do on occassion is unlist posts that are toxic or otherwise blatantly violates rules. On a very few occassions, we have hidden post content where the thread itself has merit but the post itself is unacceptable.

That’s our job as moderators. We don’t unlist or edit posts because we dislike what they say about us. (C.f numerous posts in this very forums critical of staff, which are still visible, for example)
We act when they break the rules, or are offensive or toxic to the public. If you are looking for a forum where people are free to say exactly what they please without consequences, that isn’t here.

We do. C.f Puma’s post above, where a concern they had that moderation was unaware of, was taken charge of when it was illuminated.

There isn’t. Staff is about as flat as we can get it, with the exception of Accipiter, as the guy who built the place and pays the bill, has ultimate authority. Even he mostly speaks with us first before anything major happens.

Please contact me with specific incidents on this, and we’ll look into it.

Same as above. Please, point out to me (or if it involves me, another member of staff) where this has happened, and we will investigate it.

As far as I know, there are no rules on Wolfery about having multiple clone characters, and I see no reports on that where moderators have acted on this premise. As always, feel free to DM me with incidents of this.

So in short - no, I don’t recognize many of the concerns you bring up here, Nirofur. But I’m neither omniscient or omnipresent, nor is any of the other staffers. But we need specifics, because if we do have places where someone feels we’ve misstepped, we need to know specifically where that has happened. Not vaguely “It’s happened”. We can’t self-assess without concrete examples. So, my DMs are open, both to you and to anyone else who has specific examples where they feel moderation has done a poor job.

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More food for thought for people who have ‘victim-blamed’ stories from friends. Something you’d be keen to keep in mind for perspective on staff conduct.

More often than not (disclaimer: more than half the time) the suggestion of victim-blaming was the victim instigating an escalation socially because they would have a hard time communicating their discomfort and would either lose composure or willfully choose to do something explosive while simultaneously feeling completely righteously justified in their self-imagined exception case for breaking the rules and pleading for forgiveness after the fact - a decision made in error.

Often, they’d receiving nothing more than a warning when it was appropriate to do so - which they would then lose their mind about and sometimes (disclaimer: not as often thankfully) would even start trying to poison the public against the staff because of how mad they would get… once again demonstrating the issue which caused the warning in the first place - until they escalated the matter long enough to start receiving suspensions for their rule-breaking, disrespectful, toxic and fact-obscuring reactionary conduct toward other users and staff. Between various sites I’ve volunteered at, this happens often enough that I’m able to write this generalized summary today.

Communication and composure don’t come natural to some people, but that doesn’t give them a pass to violate the stated site rules.

The staff is not present to be abused as a sword against the users. They’re there to be a shield upholding the community guidelines/rules. If you obscure your own misdeeds and report somebody, that person is just going to file logs too… and then suddenly there’s a brand new alt account screeching in public trying to poison the well against the staff.

Look. There are ways to handle things in an orderly way. Nobody is here to tolerate bad faith or abusive loss of composure - not the staff, not the other users. If you violate the rules, you’re getting advisement and a warning. If you keep breaking the rules and presenting yourself as a nail - you’re getting hammered down with the shield boss until you take the hint. If you’re going to file reports, be honest, direct and don’t violate the rules repeatedly prior to finally filing a report against someone you’re having trouble communicating clearly with.

While the staff are inclined to be gentle when appropriate, if you keep testing the rules, you’ll find out quick that the volunteers don’t have the patience for your crap because its unpaid work and nobody should be tolerating bad faith conduct.

–Five

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Man, my ears are burning about this post. Digging up things from over a year ago but I was accused of toxic behavior before the only leaving of moderators here. I had my natural dissent and have reflected on my actions but. Think you’re only hearing one side of the story talking to those who left.

There was a huge dissent thread over the banning of Dusk, the selective enforcement, and the new image policy. At every turn I feel the community voice has been heard here.

The issue I’ve had and have heard people leave over is the cliquey feel of the small town. The mods who are here if they were once heavily involved and nominated to be part of the staff for being so really aren’t now. They have a right to their private (often busy) lives but man. When staff and area owners only talk to each other and select regulars I can understand people’s feelings of nepotism and wanting to leave for not feelin’ part of things.

There’s no real good answer to this. And honestly, I’m at Sinder because this town feels so much more welcoming and open than anywhere else I’ve been. If yah put yourself out there people will see you and appreciate you. And ah, people feel unwelcome and leave and that always breaks my heart.

Anyway, mods. Love yah, thank you for all the work you do.

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I take issue with the charge of nepotism. It is not well placed. When you consider someone for moderation, it’s not a normal job, where you can assess their skills in a procedural sense (do they understand object-oriented code? can they code defensively?)

It is overwhelmingly a social pursuit.

Do they have an understanding of when intervention is a good idea, and when it’s a bad one? Do they have the emotional intelligence to recognize when someone is being hurt by the actions of another? Do they have the finesse required to take corrective action that has the best chance of a positive result for all involved, instead of just swinging an axe at everyone’s necks? Do they have the judgement to understand who in a dispute needs this corrective action and who doesn’t?

Understanding how someone handles themselves in various social situations is far more important than their technical skills, or even their ability to adhere to a well-codified set of rules. To understand this requires getting to know them socially.

Large social networks hire moderators based on roughly the same interview process they use for everything else, from managers to accountants. They have to, because of their scale. Wolfery doesn’t have such scale, and has the luxury of holding itself to a better standard.

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Moderation staff has spent a great deal of time evaluating these concerns. I would like, if I may, to attempt a distillation of the ongoing amplification and concatenation, along with some commentary which, hopefully, proves elucidating to our position and outlook. Rather than my usual point-by-point engagement, as some of you are deeply (perhaps woefully) familiar with, I feel that this go-around is better approached by a more comprehensive and overarching perspective.

Firstly, we have little interest in saving face. If we were concerned with this, it would be trivial to manage the conversations which are had here much more aggressively than we do, in a way which favored us much more directly. We could easily create sock puppets, edit responses, and cherry-pick replies to create a far more favorable impression of ourselves. I promise we are savvy enough to even leave in enough dissent to rebuke the impression it’s all perfectly rosy.

More importantly, we care more about the health of the community than our own reputations. That we make decisions that users are unhappy with is evidence of this. Managing a community, especially an internet community, is a balancing act with severe opportunity costs. It is impossible to build such a community in a way which gratifies all ideals. Some people will always be unhappy with the choices made, and we accept that without masking because of our commitment.` (edited)

Those opportunity costs impose strict limitations on what can and cannot be achieved, realistically, in such a community. Privacy and transparency are trade offs, representativeness and trust, efficiency and scope. While it can seem to individuals that there is an absolute answer to which is the correct and ethical choice to prioritize, each of these opposed elements is in fact equally important in non-comparable ways. Carefully expressing the balance among them, situationally, is essential to building the sort of community we want. Cleaving to the spirit of the rules, rather than the letter, is key to striking such a balance and leveraging the rules as checks against rash action is critical for effecting such balance smoothly.

It is easy, in the moment, to see the choice of one subset of principles or another as destructive when it does not support the course of action one prefers. However, it is also not reasonable to presume that because someone has made a decision you disagree with they must have been incautious or poorly motivated. Two parties, acting in good faith, can evaluate a situation and come to different conclusions regarding matters like this when their choice of principles are disjoint from one another. In point of fact, this is absolutely unavoidable.

This is the reason why we make decisions by consensus rather than litigation. If we appear to have substantial power or insular homogeneity, it is because our processes are chosen to favor debate, reflection, and agreement amongst ourselves. The principles we have chosen to maintain this community preclude the sorts of assurances which might be comforting to many people in pursuit of an overall better and more enjoyable place. In short, our vision encompasses a community which eschews guarantees in favor of greater potential. I would not deny that this is an arguable point, but it is one on which we have come to a consensus based on the stated principles for the community.

I would not advance this as a singular ideal to which all communities ought to be held. It is a specific vision for a kind that we, as a collective, believe in building and wish to inhabit. There are inevitably going to be people who bounce off this set of ideals. And people for whom it clearly clicks. And, equally certain, there will be edge cases of folks for whom this falls into an unfortunate uncanny valley of principles. People who appreciate the outcomes without accepting the means, and vice versa. It will be a matter for each individual to decide whether it is within or outside of their comfort zone.

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I believe you are arguing in bad faith now, Kelmi. The moderators offered a concrete way to address the specific issues by reporting it to them. If you don’t have trust in the moderation team, you can report your issues with the moderation team to Acci, I suppose. If you don’t want to report anything and continue to engage in the demagoguery, then…

Doing +1s on “mod team circlejerk bad” isn’t really solving anything, don’t you think?

Let me explain it in simpler words, then.

Acci is the ultimate authority on what happens with Wolfery. It is known for a fact he lurks the forums, given he even commented in this thread.

A member of staff offered to either report a specific incident to them to figure if it’s indeed a problem that needs to be addressed. They pointed out that…

you can report it to another member of staff, too. That includes Accipiter who is clearly a staff member for the purpose of this discussion.

Reading the thread above sounds like the moderators are open to dialogue and are happy to look into specific issues. To demonstrate the problem, let me quote the original post. “Moderators made comments to which the original complainant and the community were not able to respond” isn’t a specific issue. “when a junior staff member brings the complaint to their superiors, but their superiors are hiding behind the front line staff” isn’t a specific issue. “The specific uses of power included asking players to leave” isn’t specific either.

A specific issue is when you have a concrete example of the above and you provide the details to the moderation team. If you are not happy with the moderation team, you appeal to Acci. If you are not happy with what Acci has to say you… move on with your life I suppose?

I have no visibility into how the mod team operates, but every single time I was involved in an incident where I reported someone or I was reported, the moderation team did a thorough investigation of the circumstances and they never acted harshly. My experience is that the moderation decisions are fair.

“Oh, Shinyuu, but you are staff and thus part of the clique,” you’ll say. And I can only reply that I get an even more anal treatment due to that. I literally spend hours discussing em-dashes use in my areas’ writing with Raeth.

To sum it up, I think you are acting in bad faith because the comments above already provide the actionable way to address the concerns raised. Repeating the non-specific concerns doesn’t add to the discussion.

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