This idea has the potential to draw some controversy, so let’s try to keep things civil in the comments. I personally don’t care what anybody gets up to in this fantasy world, but it’s no secret that the player base has a decent amount of age play.
People can be for or against it in a fantasy setting for any number of reasons, but new players often end up in Station Park and there’s a fair chance the first two to three people they click or interact with are going to have the age play tag present and that alone is enough to get some people to go ‘oh, nope, this isn’t for me’ and off they go. Not only will a player like that not come back, but I think they’ll discuss it and dissuade others from peeking in on the community.
I would be proposing a system that allows a user to only see tags that match tags already in their own profile. Other tags would register as [hidden] to alert the viewer that other tags are present. This would only leave customized tags as potential problems, but I rarely see custom tags for tags that already exist as a selection. This could be used for ALL tags or just specific tags that some might see as controversial, in which case the [hidden] tag shouldn’t be used as that would just alert players anyway.
This would encourage the use of proper tags and potentially reduce players ignoring one another in public settings because of the mere presence of a tag. For example: Player 1 ignores a wave from Player 2 because Player 2 has [nonconsensual] in their description in a public place they otherwise would’ve returned.
Often times, the person with the “problematic” tag doesn’t base their entire RP experience or personality around a single tag and are singled out of things just for the mere presence of it.
This is by no means an elegant solution to this, but I’ve found a lot of enjoyment here despite not falling into the ‘general vibe’ I got on entry. If I hadn’t pushed through that vibe, I never would’ve made friends and started lil stories here, and want to see this community grow beyond ‘Oh, Wolfery? That’s just age players and sex pests.’
This is more to open discussion on retention and such, so go EASY. >:P
No, I totally get all of that. This was more of a way to avoid the gut instinct, get people folded in, and then if they’re blindsided, they’re blindsided, but perhaps have already made friends or actually talked to people enough to warrant a second look at them beyond a tag.
The forced outing of tags would be a difficult thing to navigate, though, so perhaps there is no happy medium in this case, as that is not something I took into consideration. Hm-hm.
I don’t think most people are intentionally hateful, I just think they fail to engage people appropriately when they think they’re bad by default because of some misconceptions and junk. I’m probably not quite explaining myself right, but it’s all I can do. x3 I try my best to interact with everybody around me regardless of tags, post length, 1st or 3rd person, or the tense they use. (totally did that wrong.)
Firrrrst question: Do you mean only positive tags? This exact argument hasn’t been said before but similar discussions have happened. One problem that came up is that seeing the tag you may not like has an actual benefit to you, given that seeing the tags tells you what the other person likes and is into, and helps guide your interaction with them.
Edit with analogy: Let’s say you’re flying a plane. The idea that another plane might be flying toward yours is quite upsetting. We don’t put [hidden] on the TCAS display, we tell you how to avoid it.
I don’t think your idea is bad, but I can see a lot of ‘Oh wait you’re into things I think are abhorrent’ issues happening.
I kind of like the idea of a show-for-match/click-for-no-match system.
Or maybe even match categorization as a tag revamp.
“Matches: anal group-sex females males” (both users like)
“Mismatches: noncon bottom ageplay zoo” (one user likes, one user dislikes)
“Idfk: customs scentplay etc” (one user has tagged, other user doesn’t gave tagged)
e2a: maybe even allow users to have a ‘blacklist’ that pops a click-through warning up in place of a character’s tags, allowing them to know ‘this user’s into shit you’re blacklisting, just fyi’.
This wouldn’t help with the issue of unfair prejudice but at the same time allows people to ‘not see’ content they don’t want.
Yeah, the blacklist definitely wouldn’t be my first pick. I’d rather see something more like the match categories like you see with certain custom clients in f-list.
Ultimately though this whole issue is a social problem first and further down the line, a code problem that might help nudge the required social behavior modifications.
I’ve typed up a couple different drafts of this message, but I’ll just post the heart of it: I don’t agree with hiding tags unless someone else has that tag.
For better or for worse, certain content is welcome on Wolfery and that content is restricted on where it can take place alongside several other kinks that are much less controversial. That means, for better or for worse, that’s part of the expectation in coming to Wolfery.
Personally, I’m a fan of seeing what someone is or isn’t into so I know right away whether we’re going to click or not – even with the expectation that usually a single tag doesn’t define an entire character’s existence.
I don’t like to list my tags not because I hiding interests, simply because I find the idea of being approached on them annoying. Most everything I’m into is ‘with the right person’ and ‘maybe ask me first’. Listing out all my tags always felt like some self advertising f-list meat market stuff I’m often keen to just not do.
I don’t know, you can list out what you’re into. Find and search things that get you to click. Maybe got me thinkin’ I should list out, yeah. These are topics that are probably gonna come up if you hang out with my character for any amount of time. Hiding these tags will just… not help with the issue at hand here.
That said, I’m probably one of the worst offenders of ageplay tag stuff. I just kinda greet kids and conversate in the park ICly? I dunno, I find it cute an inoffensive. Making me wonder if this is really such an immense turnoff, I can see how it would be. I’d like it to be kids are welcome in the park and if people are truely looking for an ICly adults only space they can head to the Foxhole?
I’m not really against or for any certain type of tag or behavior on here, I only focused on the age play tag specifically because it’s one of those particular tags that can saturate an area and when the area is essentially the landing zone for new folks, I don’t know how inclined people with gut reactions are to stay. I think people who’re blinded to it first and get a chance to socialize and see people are well behaved, because seriously almost everybody I’ve spoken to on Wolfery so far has been, they’ll stick around and go find their own niches later. This could go for any ‘controversial’ tag that saturates the landing zone, really.
I’m worried about the ‘known for this now’ phenomenon that crops up in a loop when one place settles with a specific player base early. My only quotable example from the top of my head is a friend who started an art Patreon, someone offered more money for a specific kink to be drawn, and now 99% of her art is that kink because that kink community latched in and she doesn’t get any other customers anymore because her gallery is basically that, haha.
It’s more a spitball on a potential reason some new faces might dip fast and not even specifically for the age play tag in particular, it was just the more glaring on a social level. I often have a habit of typing an idea before I actually sit and review the logistics of it, too, but that’s why I post here for feedback! Lot of ya’ll been here a lot longer than me and probably have a lot of experience with ‘will it or won’t it’.
Speaking for myself, I find the ageplay tag somewhat ambiguous and open to interpretation that might be the cause of friction.
In your example, you are just acknowledging and chatting with a character that is (or presents as) underage. But the ageplay tag is listed under the Adult tags section. And you can either like or dislike the topic out of the box. But there’s nothing to indicate that where your limits are without a custom tag. For me, personally, I don’t mind if underage characters are around, but I had to create a custom nsfw-ageplay tag to dislike to indicate that any lewdness would likely not be reciprocated, which would fall outside of the original tag-for-tag proposal by @Saint.
For what it’s worth, this is the first time I heard tags have ‘sections’. I’d just been typing into the box and getting autocomplete! I see now there’s a whole menu under a button-that-doesn’t-look-like-a-button (flat design taken too far!). Can’t be the only one in this situation who took it as a neutral tag.
With that in mind, I agree that the tag itself is unsatisfactory, at least if assumed to be adult without other tags, some of which do not exist as defaults. For example, ‘babyfur’ is a normally non-sexual form of ‘ageplay’ (by itself at least; babyfurs or their players may also engage in sexual roleplay).
As for ‘ageplay’ itself: these are tags applied to characters, not players. ‘ageplay’ as a preference in theory means the character is interested in adult characters - maybe themselves - pretending to be (usually) underage. Some may assume it is a player preference for underage characters which will not always be correct.
There could be a (General) character attribute ‘underage’ which would more clearly specify the situation by its presence or absence (e.g. Kai is ‘small’, open to ‘ageplay’ - hey, free candy! - but isn’t ‘underage’, any more than the average kobold). Though perhaps it is enough that some characters specify their age (insert sidebar about how some species canonically live ten hours…).
It doesn’t help that, alphabetically, ‘ageplay’ may be the first tag you see unless buried under other custom ones; and if you customize ‘ageplay’ to clarify, it pops back up.
A five month bump later and I see this thread for the first time.
From a moderation perspective - as well as a player advocate perspective, let’s address the flow of the first question in two ways.
Currently:
Person looks at you->Sees tag they do not like->Doesn’t interact with you.
This is not a good user pattern but the alternative seems to be:
Person looks at you->Sees their common interest tags->Interacts with you->Probably finds out later.
This has the potential for a lot more upset and inter-player problems. We had something similar to this come up before, early on, and my position (and that of some other staffers but I don’t want to speak for everyone) is that the sooner players find out about a personal incompatability the better, because overall it causes fewer feelings to be hurt.
Perfect? No. But alternatives create the ‘regret’ situation above, and also can restrict discoverability. Then there’s the question of custom tags in all this…
This reply more in general than actually addressing Saint’s last post here, but the gist still applies.
People will always have preferences for tags. Some may find a certain subset of tags highly offensive. There will always be someone who finds one group’s kink offensive to them.
Wolfery is meant to be an inclusive, kink positive environment. Hiding certain tag types, especially globally, is not inclusive. We disallow certain types of extreme play in some public areas. Others allow them. Some private areas have specific rules for some kinks. That’s fine. But the simple fact of the matter is that there will be people around who will play things other people don’t like. We have made effort to ensure everyone has their space where they can stay without running into those types of play.
But if the mere existence of a kink - and that it is acceptable in some areas of the game world - so offends someone, then perhaps they are in the wrong place altogether. It’s not too much to ask for everyone to respect that they have different preferences.
Throwing in my 2c here: To what extent might it help solve the OP’s problem if the tags are hidden… behind one extra click? Instead of showing right up on the profile, there’s a “see my preferences” button or something that one has to click to reveal them.
This way, nobody who’s new and still tentative about the place gets a fusillade of kinky tags in their face* whenever they try to get a description of someone, but everything’s still right there for anyone who actually wants to know.
*nothing wrong with it if you’re into getting a fusillade of kinky tags in your face, of course.
