Oh neat the “Other places arent doing it so I don’t have to” argument, how original.
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Let me just quote yourself:
If someone wants to do it, they will find a way.
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Hey you like bad faith arguments, right? Alright lemme just…
https://twitter.com/LailaMickelwait/status/1645799898435158018?s=20 there we go. Normally I don’t do that but hey, fight fire with fire. So go ahead, try using pornhub in bad faith arguments, I can do that to
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You’re just making stories though. You can choose to be sexual with it or not.
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I feel like the most doable option for a site of this size would be to make a separate site for only minors where absolutely no NSFW content is allowed.
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That sounds cool, I think that would be nice for the little ones.
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And how would that stop them from going to the adult one?
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A big part of why I won’t do that at the moment is that I have no way of safeguarding any underaged users from grooming.
And as @Shinyuu just pointed out; it won’t stop them from visiting the NSFW areas.
And it won’t stop predatory adults from pretending to be youngsters in the SFW areas.
So naah. Until there are better safeguards against grooming, I will keep it 18+.
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Ah, indeed, never thought about it like that. Always leave it to you to set things straight and point out the important problems :3
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That argument may not be original but it is true. If ID verification is required on the site people will leave and in addition to that we will get virtually no new users period, even more so if playing here would cost money with the verification @Shinyuu had mentioned.
As I see it there are really two options (unless something better is found)
- Be morally correct and require some form of ID to play, most likely causing the site to slow down or die in the worst case.
or 2. Leave things how they are and try to avoid minors when they are found.
As someone who works in a field where I see people’s ID on a daily basis, I know that it is possible to identify where someone lives just by the background of it, and because of such I will never share my ID with anyone, but that is just my viewpoint.
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I am curious, @AliynMiko, what other chat services do you use to partake of NSFW chat and what ID verification services do they require? I understand this is an important requirement for you and would like to know what solutions you have seen used on other free, chat-based sites? As Wolfery is a system is in its infancy, it cannot have the same maturity as commercial or even long-running sites but perhaps can look at things other similar sites have done.
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I realize the flaws in that after some sleep. I was thinking that it was mostly so you could ban someone from that site if you found out they didn’t fit the age range.
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You know, this is something that me and a few friends, including @Serina, were chatting about amongst ourselves, and @AliynMiko, do you not realize how easily a minor could fake an ID? Like seriously, and I don’t mean to be rude or anything, but all they need to do is go into their parent’s belongings, if they live with their parents, or ask an adult friend, or older friend for their ID, not that I would give my ID for use to a minor. That’s irresponsible. And voila, suddenly they’ve bypassed that requirement, and on they go to playing with adults again. Sure, you’d get the odd few who don’t have access to that sort of stuff, but it still kind of invalidates your idea in that manner. If they can simply get past that bit of security by using another’s ID, even if the other doesn’t know, then you’re back to square one.
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Ok so should bars stop ID checking people cause minors can fake ID’s?
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Bars have money and employees to spend on checking ID’s. You’d probably also be buying alcohol from them which they can get fined for.
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Sorry if I’ve been unclear in my previous posts.
Just to clarify my standpoint:
- We will not do ID checks on registration. It is simply not reasonable in terms of privacy and practicality.
- We will ban users when we have good reasons to believe they are underaged.
- We might provide ways for users to appeal an underage ban, which will include showing ID.
- We will encourage players to report underaged users.
- We will remain 18+ until we have proper ways to safeguard against grooming. This is pretty far in the future, if ever.
- NSFW realms will always remain 18+.
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Huh, just reading this is making me feel ill again, I believe acci is currently in the process of adding in support for multiple realms. I think that if a child only one were to be created then we would have the problem of child grooming, and still, what is stopping those children from using the adult realm?
Even if you put an ID verification in place it can - and will still be bypassed. Heck, when I was 17 I bought a fake ID to go clubbing and no, I didn’t get caught nor questioned.
While yes, I would love for this place to be a safe haven that is unreachable for younger audiences, and I have made an entire thread on the topic itself, It just isn’t possible. Simple as that.
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Why don’t we reign it in a bit. You accused someone of making a bad faith argument (which was very rude), yet here you are, making one yourself. Mindfulness first, yes?
The issue here is that this is not a matter which is reasonable to saddle arbitrary citizens with. Bars can only check IDs because the state issues them and enforces a law to require they be checked, and adults all consequently carry them. Online services face many unique challenges that physical establishments never have to worry about. So you see, this is a matter that can only be properly solved at the source, and that means either parents/guardians and/or the state will need to be involved. Something like a digital ID at the ISP level, either to flag traffic as belonging to a minor, or conversely to sign a connection as being verified to an adult. I won’t hold my breath for that, though.
You have a right to privacy. Anonymity is an important safeguard for many people. Not everyone lives in a country where they can freely and safely express themselves. Whether that’s a gender identity, sexual orientation, or even just being a furry. Plus, privacy means that people can safely explore concepts, themes and identities that they might not be comfortable or confident with.
Wolfery goes above and beyond its due diligence. With the exception that we will not betray our users or introduce undue risk to them, we work to the best of our ability to protect minors from accessing the service. Please trust that in that regard, we’re very much with you.
It is frustrating that there are not better tools for this. For now, we make due with what we have, while respecting the safety and rights of our users.
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Hi. Logician here.
An ID with the face, name, and location redacted is, by definition, not an identifying document.
Minors can get a government-issued ID in most areas. Editing date of birth on an ID is trivial; if you can scan it, you can do that.
False equivalency. Bars and clubs are attended in-person and do not store ID. Also many people do not go to bars or clubs.
Argument from anecdote. Straw man fallacy.
False equivalency, argument from anecdote, improper analogy, hyperbole.
A correct argument does not have to be original.
Argument presented was not in bad faith.
False equivalency, appeal to irrelevant.
Frankly, if you’re going to claim people are using improper arguments you might want to brush up on your rhetoric skills.
An ‘are you of age?’ question is certainly an imperfect method of age check. However, given the constraints being worked with, it is the least imperfect method available to us.
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I think the internet as a whole has not made a foolproof method of age verification, and Wolfery is currently doing just about all that is reasonably possible.
I do think some players could take more responsibility helping safe guard minors and the site by reporting issues with minors using the tools provided. It’s never fun to have to report anyone, but it’s best for all parties involved to report any issues with suspected minors.
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