A Community Note from your Wolfery moderation staff

#41

Thank you for the apology. While it won’t mend the feelings I have about you right away it is a step in the right direction and I respect that a lot. I figured out what was going on because she had said she’d been taken and questioned by you before. Seeing the name of the room made it pretty obvious to me. I did my best to plead my case, but as I said before you simply didn’t listen, said the things you wanted to say than banned me without a second thought. I hope that if there’s a next time you may have to talk to pheonix you start with patience and respect towards her instead of the animosity I felt and I’m sure she feels towards you and the rest of the mods.

I’m glad to know you’ve got nothing else to give me since that makes me feel like I’ve truly exhausted every option I had and then some. I hope y’all actually do reach out to my other friends or since that’s too much to ask, them to you to provide what little they may have to prove that I’m at least not Pheonix.

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#42

It’s still unprofessional in my eyes. Even if it’s about a behaviour, it was still used against Dust/Pheonix in a way that felt degrading and harmful.

From what I can read, at no point had Pheonix’s previous actions been brought up. Instead, they stated some possible outcomes of the actions that ‘Pheonix’/Dust supposedly made, in a rather aggressive tone, to someone who, ‘Pheonix’ or not, was pleading that it was not the case.

There was no word on it. No ‘We have you for multiple accounts of ban evasion’ until after the ban was issued, and Dust had to resort to reaching out themself via the forums.

Believe it or not, but a community is made up of tons of tiny individuals who all work together and play together, and make the realm, together.

To tend to the needs of the community, is to tend to the needs of those who make up the community.

If I, an individual, have a problem, is it not up to you lot to then come and help.
Does that not make functions such as help in the realm pointless?

This shouldn’t be a thought. You lot have these forums for these sorts of long, drawn out discussions. Instead of assuming you had little time to talk via ooc messages in the realm, you could’ve provided them with that info. Pointed them in the literal right direction, not a moral right direction, and had a longer, and better discussion with them, no?
If Pheonix/Dust hadn’t reached out, then you would’ve gotten the answer of whether they wanted to discuss and get help/reform.

But the fact is that when Dust did reach out, there was little direction he was given on how to help you guys.

Dust had already said he wasn’t pheonix, had already given you a few routes to go through to look at. The fact he had been around for a while, at least since around February time at my Guild, longer so at the Foxhole as I believe he had the tag before I signed him up at my place, that he was willing to give names of friends to reach out too that wished to support him.

I’m probably back-seat moderating at this point, and I apologize for that.
But surely there should’ve been a moment of ‘Hold on, maybe we need to check this out some more.’

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#43

I have mostly skimmed, I will admit, but Dust has been present at the Pokemon Guild since I started Wolfery. They’ve been nothing but kind in and out of character. I have no idea who the Pheonix is or their situation here on Wolfery, but even if Dust is this person, would it really do harm to leave them alone if they’ve been well behaved and no further reports have been slung around?

Again, no idea what the Pheonix situation was like to warrant their ban, but I haven’t seen any behavior from Dust in my months of interacting with them account multiple characters of mine ( some of which they’re unaware are even me, so it ain’t like he’s just nice to me since we’re friendly ).

Given the evidence listed in this forum so far I’m inclined to align with Kelmi on this one. Just looks like bad form.

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#44

I have to agree on that one.

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#45

As my final note for the night.
I have no recollection of ‘Pheonix’ myself.
Whether or not they had a member at my guild, or any interaction with me at all, is lost to me, I have a bad memory and tend to scribble things down where I can.
That said, As the owner of the Pokemon Guild, Dust has been kind, in and out of character, and has never shown to do anything wrong at the guild bar one tiny incident with a couple of others, in which he and they apologised for to me afterwards.

I did refresh my listing of members back at the start of July from scratch with those I saw around.
Dust is featured on there, and on my previously more scruffy version of the list that I made back when my area was added.

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I am writing this final note here, for the fact that, even if it comes to no help to the mods whatsoever, that I wanted to mention that the reason I have been fighting this tonight was in support of my friend Dust. Regardless of if he is ‘Pheonix’ or not, Dust has done nothing to me for me to believe that is the case.
He’s kind hearted, and supportive. And has been a INTEGERAL part of my Guild and it’s popularity over the year.

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#46

I am assuming this is meant to be something else, detrimental means bad!

#47

Aw jeez-
Yes! I did not mean anything bad by this!
I’m bri’ish my english suffers enough as is- i’m surprised I made it this far.
I meant to mean that he was an integral part of the guild.

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#48

Thanks for reaching out as well Brie. I hoped Luna kinda spread the word around to most about this so sorry if I didn’t think to reach out to you. I mostly asked others to reach out to those that actually rp’d with me and Pheonix at the same time. I do miss hanging out in the lounge with y’all and with your statement that will hopefully happen soon.

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#49

I stumbled upon it by other means, but always happy to help! I’ve never seen you act any sorta way toward me or anybody else. I haven’t been around much lately on account of some new and more demanding work, but I hope to come be SOCIAL at least soon again.

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#50

Understandable. I’ll be IRL busy soon too, but it won’t be for long hopefully. I wish you luck on your work!

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#51

While I understand the idea behind the ban of Dust, I do hope the moderators take this whole kerfuffle as a helpful prod to action. I understand the mods are both volunteers and amateurs, but I think some of the language used in confronting Dust probably only stoked argument and didn’t help to calm things down. Conflict resolution is difficult at the best of times, and if ya’ll want some links to helpful materials on that, and dealing well with difficult people, and not provoking bad reactions in stressful situations, I can provide.

Also, I also hope there is some process Dust has access to where he can attempt to prove he’s not this Phoenix guy. Privately. I don’t need details on that. I mean, seriously, okay, he may or may not have convincing evidence, but everybody should have a ‘last appeal’ :).

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#52

Thanks. A lot of this has been immensely frustrating to me and many of my replies today and probably going forward towards the mods will show a lot of that frustration. There is a group DM I have with all the mods where I gave them all the evidence I could to prove I’m not Pheonix and they have said it’s not substantial enough or could easily be faked. The other route I provided was reaching out to some people that rp’d with me and Pheonix at the same time, but after asking them to see if the mods reached out they all said no. Fox later said if those individuals wanted to they could reach out to the mods which to me confirmed that he lied about that point. Thanks again for offering resources and such and I’m sure some, myself included, would like that even if it wouldn’t be a complete shift in tone and all that right away.

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#53

When using VPNs, if no region is selected, the VPNs can sometimes run the same IP or similar IPs. It is entirely possible that Pheonix and Dust use the same VPN and their regions have lined up by weird coincidence. This has happened on other sites such as Gaiaonline, where my ex was banned for sharing her IP address with someone who regularly cheated because she had the same VPN.

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#54

To add to my previous post, you all have clearly been lead astray by the fact that you have access to these IP addresses that you think clearly line up with each individual person. The issue with such us that when a company creates a VPN service they in turn pay for access to specific IPs within specific regions, meaning that when someone uses the same VPN as someone else it is going to look as though these two individuals are the same person. Mind you, I’m going based off of information provided by a VPN my ex used, but it shouldn’t matter because almost all VPNs work with the same concepts in mind. A VPN makes your original IP anonymous, but the recurring IPs that they use in turn can cause a moderator team to trip and stumble over themselves when banning someone based off IP addresses. There is a way to trace the IP addresses back to their respective VPNs but tying them to a specific user is a good way to entrap yourself in a form of defamation based off of improper information.

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#55

Sorry all for having been disconnected for such a long while.

I am currently looking into this appeal, with the info available, and other data only accessible by me.
I am also looking into how to improve the toolings to minimize the chance of ban-evasion false positives.

I have no doubt that all of us is acting for the sake of wanting to help the community and those in it. Be it mods. Or be it those disagreeing with the mods.

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#56

I’ve taken quite some time to read down this whole thread. It’s my first time truly engaging with one too. I try to avoid drama and just focus on fun with friends in the community. I feel I should show some solidarity, however.

I’m sympathetic that this situation considers factors beyond my understanding. I do not know the issue previously which occurred regarding Pheonix, and do not know Pheonix or any of their characters knowingly beyond seeing Pheonix’s character name in the awake bar once or twice I think. I do know Dust the character. And therefore by some extension the player behind them. I’m fully aware I’m to entertain the idea that Pheonix’s and Dust’s player might be one and the same with no definitive proof to present to the contrary given the situation. And I’m equally aware that a commentary on character, especially an isolated case from one perspective, does not solve the situation, absolve any possible wrongdoings, etc. But regardless, this is a thread to voice perspectives and concerns, and so I shall voice mine if nothing more than to stand with friends.

I have not observed Dust outside of the Guild mentioned by @LunaUmbry, but I have interacted with them frequently there both ic and ooc. With the sole exception of the minor incident mentioned by LunaUmbry earlier (which was solved swiftly and with little issue), Dust has been a boon to the community there. Friendly, helpful, interactive, follows the rules. I have a note of when I first saw their character around the guild (a short while before they began to interact there more frequently), should that in any way help, which I doubt. And I’m sure I have log upon log I could find of their interactions public or private with me, and not once has any of it suggested a hint of wrongdoing, rule breaking, or ill or inappropriate behaviour. Whether this ends up being a case of ‘You’ve got the wrong guy’, ‘They’ve changed noticeably for the better already’ or ‘They’re incredibly good at hiding things’ is of course entirely unknown to me. But there are accounts enough from me, and it seems from others, suggesting that their behaviour and general manner is consistent with staying within rules and guidelines and that they have had evident positive interactions. I’ve yet to see anyone come forward with a damning case against Dust specifically. And in all my knowledge of spending time with them as a friend, I would be surprised to hear of such a person coming forward.

I echo LunaUmbry’s comment on a community being formed of many individuals, so sooner or later the need of the individual is going to be relevant. It is regrettable that the situation has come to this. But I’m understanding that the situation is complex and one that won’t be solved easily. I’m saying none of this in ill-will. I respect the process, and that there are matters of community safety and guidelines to consider and there’s too much of a bigger picture missing for absolute certainty. But I stand by my earlier statement regarding Dust. Whether they are or are not Pheonix is entirely unknown to me. But Dust has been a good friend and a positive presence in and out of character from all my observations of and participations in interactions with them. For the time they are gone, however long that may be, they will be missed by our portion of the community. And I encourage open and frequent collaboration should our observations, histories or knowledge be of any useful insight in resolving the matter. I’m confident that everyone here has been acting in good faith and in a genuine effort to help regardless of current stance.

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#57

Okay. This has taken me most of the day for me :sweat:
It has been a good exercise, and I’ve ended up finding many ways to improve the system and the tools.

Just to clarify; I have spent most time going through data and evidence (even coding some application to help me find patterns!) I have spent some time talking to mods. More time talking to @Shinyzorua07. And I have spent hardly no time reading discussions.

My findings

  1. I have been able to verify that Pheonix and Character A are indeed the same player
  2. I have verified, beyond reasonable doubt, that Pheonix and Dust are DIFFERENT players.

Due to this, I have talked with the mods and asked them to lift the ban.

Now to something equality important…

The mods

The little I’ve read from the discussions makes my hackles raise!

What kind of view do you have of them? You think they just randomly ban people that annoy them, or act without having reasonable proof to back it up? Like they are high horsed tyrants?

I have access to their decision making process. I can read their internal discussion. I can see how they always seek hard evidence and review their findings, to make as good a call as possible. All for the shared purpose of making this place a nice and safe place. And I see them do this voluntarily.

Yes. I surely understand that being unjustly banned has the complete opposite effect of making Wolfery seem nice and safe.

But they had good reason to come to their conclusion, as I think also Dust understands by now. All the tools I’ve given them pointed to the fact that Dust and Pheonix were the same player. They acted in accordance to that info, like they’ve done around 30+ times before with other Pheonix accounts (which I have also verified to be valid ban-evades today.)

I seriously appreciate them a lot. And even if some calls may be wrong, unjust, or too hastily made, I think they deserve more trust than what I’ve seen here.

…

That said. There are also wrongs being done.

The harsh words are one. In both directions, I am afraid. It never helps when we dig down in defensive positions. We need to strive to always be respectful, especially when in a moderator position.

I am also personally sorry, @Shinyzorua07 and @Raeth, for not being quicker to pick this up when you reached out for my help with this. I really understand the stress this has caused you, Shiny. I am sorry for that.

I also see how my insufficient tools indirectly caused part of it, not providing mods with a more detailed analysis, leading to the wrong call. And my failure to keep the VPN detection tables up to date.

A few last notes

  • Report moderators if you feel they are behaving unfair, preferably with logs attached! I encourage this. They encourage this too! (Right, mods?) They are not a tight knit group of pals covering each others’ backs. Believe me. They will keep each other responsible. And I will react if they don’t!
  • Don’t leave your bag unattended at airports. And if someone asks for your login account, or asks you to create accounts on their behalf, say No!

(EDIT: I’ve locked this thread, since I think further discussion will not be helpful at the moment. If there is a need to discuss details, procedures, etc., we can do it later on after this has cooled a bit)

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#58