Once again, moral equivalencies being drawn between ageplay and active real pedophilia.
Thanks for proving my point.
Look, I’m sorry that happened to you, but it was a pedophile who did it. Not some misguided ageplayer. They were a pedo first.
I dedicated a large part of my academic study to the effects of VCSAM, I’ve written papers on it, I’ve compiled information.
Anything peer-reviewed you could send my way?
Mods, y’all should probably just close this thread at this point.
You’re seeing people say exactly what you said you didn’t want to start coming up.
I really appreciate where you’re coming from, and cherish that some folks choose to engage with their past abuse by becoming experts about the phenomena that lead to their exploitation. I respect that this stuff genuinely makes your skin crawl and that this sensation is wholly justified and entirely based in real, lived experience and real, laborious research.
I would like to take a step back from the topic of ageplay on Wolfery, in particular, and ask you some questions about what you actually want from the world. Like, magic wand, do you think all ageplayers should stop doing what they are doing? Is there something about how we tend to engage with this stuff that you object to on the grounds of your research? What is your reasoning for depriving innocent people of such liberty because there exist some who take advantage of that liberty to hurt others? How do you justify not depriving innocent people of other liberties, such as engaging with NSFW content in general, which also provides an avenue (and, anecdotally, to a far greater extent than ageplay in particular) for exploitation?
I do not want to make people uncomfortable. I want to contain my stories to private spaces with an audience solely comprised of consenting adults. I want to apply content warnings where such content is accessible by others. I want to take measures to ensure that kids who genuinely do not know better do not sneak into my private spaces and take advantage of the anonymity of the internet to get into my pants.
But I also have the right to exist, and to express my identity, and to tell my own story because I, too, have lived experiences that I have big feelings about. We all react differently to trauma, and — as with all kink — our needs are highly selective and our aversions profoundly visceral.
If we are banished from Wolfery, that does not mean we will stop telling our story. That just means we are going to find somewhere else that welcomes us. If we cannot find a public venue, then we will make a private one. If we are forced to send letters to each other via snail mail, then that is what we are going to do, because this is a part of who we are, and we are not willing to silence that aspect of ourselves.
So, if you cannot countenance our existence here, regardless of how invisible we are to you, how do you reckon with the knowledge that we are still out there, doing this thing, because it is so important to us? What is your ideal, here? What is your goal? And what can convince us to join you in that mission?
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I do not mean to diminish your feelings or experiences, but this argument can be made of all extreme content. What makes feral, or non-con, violence, vore, blood-play, ect. okay while this one thing gets constant backlash but all the others are almost never spoken about in this light?
If this one kink between consenting adults who do not want actual children to ever be involved or even see this content is so wrong we have to ban it, then how are the other even possibly considerable?
Rape is rape, but in these spaces no one cares until a fictional child is involved. Even when the scene itself isn’t non-consensual.
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Laws. The world is non-uniform. Countries exist. Various countries have various policies. There are significantly more countries that have issues with written ageplay than countries having issues with violence.
It’s bizarre this topic is raised and then swept under the rug of “don’t live in a backwater country” or “yeah, no one was ever was prosecuted for this, you’re gonna be fine”. There are laws. There is stuff that is illegal. Yes, even when it’s just fictional writing. Yes, that sucks. No, it’s not a blanket ban. But there are very specific, very concrete rules to which Wolfery does not adhere and thus the content is illegal as presented. Somewhere.
You need to understand that some people don’t have a personal stance against the group in a slightest, but they are actively legally liable for promoting an environment for such a group. Accipiter will have to start collecting donations with bitcoin the very second paypal will take a second look at the website. Will they have any concern with ferals or gore? Nope. They will have concern only about one thing. And this is not theoretical.
I feel sorry for the group being ostracised this much. I don’t know if that is reasonable or not. I’m not a scientist and I’m no good with reading research papers. But I know that there are actual real life concerns about being involved with this audience. And it really, really sucks.
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I second this request, or alternately that the mods begin enforcing that “don’t slur ageplayers with the p word” rule now.
Plainly, allowing this discourse to run to that topic has served it’s purpose. The active thread should now be the one about the actual content control implementation.
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I get what you’re saying, and I understand and respect your decision of leaving.
I believe it is rather unreasonable to expect that a site of this size and funding to be aware of and remain up to date on all laws in all countries someone might access it from.
I am also aware that the law doesn’t care. I am aware that if somehow this does come under scrutiny that there will likely be repercussions.
But if you take this stance then you can’t allow anyone to be trans or gay either. There are countries where that too is against the law. If we take all laws in all countries into consideration, anything adult is against a law somewhere.
So, again, I understand your reasons for leaving. But those who have remained on the staff have made it clear that isn’t what they are addressing here.
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This single infraction is the one we enforce more than any other, already.
If you see something, say something. If you say nothing, we can do nothing.
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We have had a great deal of argument of potential harm of restrictions - even minor ones - on ageplay in here.
We will not be going all ‘mods lock the thread’ when someone wants to - in a fair tone - discuss the potential harm of allowing it.
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Talon, there is nobody in this thread convincing anyone else.
No, I realize that. It’s not about that, it’s about not silencing either side.
Oh, to I’m saying silence both!
I am of the opinion that the correct response for those who are exhausted by this conversation is to disengage. Our voices are not singular; no one person’s absence is going to make or break the outcome for either camp. We have, all of us, been through a lot.
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I heartily approve of this outlook- if you are overwhelmed, exhausted, or out of breath, please take a step back for your mental health
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Speaking of, I think I am going to disengage, myself. The butterflies have had my digestive system in full shutdown mode all week q.q
I hope all of you find peace, come what may.
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Understandable. But this feels a little too ‘middle of the argument’.
Yeah, I was gonna say, that’s too much of a “Stop the Count!” approach.
(I may be a little late, but I would like to add my thoughts on this.)
All of this is quite unnecessary.
We’re all adults playing pretend. Characters do not equal real people being subjected to things that would indeed be unacceptable in real life.
Wolfery is here so we may have a safe space to indulge in things like that without hurting anyone. Writing is the better alternative than IRL harm.
I think drop-down sections in easily viewable places (such as in the About & LFRP) and opt-in content selections are a painfully obvious and easy way to go.
And why censor LFRP? Isn’t it there entirely so that folks can find other folks with similar interests? What if someone is looking for, say, noncon? Or a feral buddy to play with?
Quite silly.
Anyone can learn to use drop-downs. No one should have to edit things out of their About section and stop using LFRP.
There should be something like, perhaps, a section in User Settings where you can enable what you want to see and disable what you don’t. I’m not sure how that would be implemented in technical terms, but tech isn’t my job.
This thread has blown way out of hand. Can’t we head back to ways of refining these rules Raeth has posted, rather than arguing about morals and individual preferences?
I stand by drop-downs in About and LFRP with clear warnings which people can choose to look at.
I stand by leaving LFRP as it is.
I also stand by the fact that we are all adults capable of choosing what we each individually prefer and choose to see.
Let’s be constructive about this again.
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I mostly, if not fully, agree with this.
This thread has exploded beyond what the focus was.
People keep bringing up that friends of theirs had left the site because of problems around profiles and seeing more than they want.
But keeping this up, even if mods are thinking it’s still respectful and in the bounds of the rules, is just sowing distrust in active, current users on any side of this argument. Which will lead to the exact same thing, people leaving the site.
It really can’t be this hard to find a decent middleground to this all, right?
In my opinion, the changes seem fine. I think drop-downs are a good solution rather than just having to outright censor a profile in areas.
If someone see’s an ageplay related oc, see’s a clearly labelled drop down, and then clicks it? That’s more on them for ignoring the obvious warnings, than on the ageplay OC’s.
Even if you add big, flashing warnings to a profile with an ageplay tag, those same people will most likely click past it anyway, and complain about the explicit nature of things.
–Despite my typing not being the best, this is not me advocating for a bright flashing warning as a solution, contrary to what some might have read it to mean. It was meant as an example, that some people will subvert and avoid the systems implimented to help protect them, and then complain about what they see. –
I do think censoring LFRP is a little silly.
Why not just- have the LFRP text on someone’s profile collapsed from the moment you open someone’s profile? As of right now, clicking on someone who is LFRP, the text is right there, at the top of their profile, and open.
If their profile irks you, you wouldn’t even have to read the LFRP.
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